Freedom

by Catherine 28 January 2008 133 views Comments

In Romans 6, Paul asks: Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? To paraphrase a question from a different comment: if there is no eternal penalty of damnation, why not chuck my bible and live indulgently?

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Catherine Amber (author) said:

The question of why not live to indulgence if there is no penalty is one I find troubling… I get the gist, but for me it misses the point. I don’t hang out with my friends because to do so is to avoid a hit. I hang out with my friends because they add joy and depth to my experience of life and relationships. There is no penalty to miss, just richness to be claimed. And that richness is not always fun, sometimes the bounty of friendship is silent sharing of sorrow, the burden blended its own rare gift…
By no means has my life been fully transformed, but there are places in my soul Jesus has touched and changed and I never want to be without His gentle guidance and encouragement. I am so grateful to know just a taste of His love. I am grateful for the security His word promises in the stories of Hosea and the theology of Romans.
I don’t want to live without this beautiful God in my day to day life. I can only trust Him to bring about my healing. IF I have any wisdom, I learn to trust Him for everything, even the souls of those who seem to be callous to Him for now - which sadly and humbly I acknowledge includes me on any given day as well…

# 28 January 2008 at 12:51 pm

barbara said:

Beautiful, Cat, absolutely beautiful.

# 28 January 2008 at 1:09 pm

Rick Dancer said:

Why not….we’ll Because my Bible gives me God’s words and indulgence is selfish and would probably separate me from the father.
I find great freedom in trying to avoid sin and living under grace. I think the two go hand in hand.

# 28 January 2008 at 4:50 pm

john koskela said:

As in human relationships, when you turn your back on a person, ignore them, live as though the person does not exist, the logical consequence is the other person will not know who you are either. Same with God!

So, if there is a heaven, no matter whether there is a hell or not, if there is a heaven, and you lived your life as though there is no God, cared nothing for the people around you, why would God know who you are later on when it’s time to move to heaven where God lives? You’d have no interest in being there in the first place and God would have no interest in having you. Logical consequences, no matter whether there is a hell.

We don’t need no stinkin’ hell to do the right thing with regard to other people, with regard to God.

# 28 January 2008 at 10:06 pm

Catherine Amber (author) said:

I don’t think the same logical consequences occur in our relationship with God as happens in a human to human relationship. As I often (not always!) take the higher road as a parent, so God’s ways are above my understanding. The compassion described in the Psalms exceeds mutuality. God is the initiator and sustainer… in my view.

# 29 January 2008 at 8:41 am

Dave Cramer said:

Catherine, I dig it. I think you speak truth.

# 29 January 2008 at 9:17 am

Rick Dancer said:

Josh,
I’m not sure hell is to get me to do the right thing. That would make it all about me.

Being a follower of Christ is supposed to be all about Him.
I find Him in many ways…through serving people, through reading His word, through guidance from the Holy Spirit.

Freedom, has nothing to do with Hell….does it.
Why do we always have to go back to hell?
Hey, that’s kind of funny….If you didn’t hear the tone of my voice you might think I was screaming….”why do we always have to go back to hell?” But I wasn’t (smile)

# 29 January 2008 at 4:39 pm

Joshua Kagi said:

Rick, this is the third or fourth time you’ve inaccurately addressed a comment to me when it was someone else’s thought. Make sure you know who’s comment/post you’re reading.

# 29 January 2008 at 8:59 pm

barbara said:

“Why not chuck my Bible and live indulgently” is the question. I’d answer it w/ another question - “Why?” Every time I’ve tried to live life outside of God’s love, and God’s will, I’ve made a royal friggen mess of it. If I’ve learned ANYTHING from that (and, please God, I hope I have), it is that I do not wish to live out of, or away from, God’s love. And that has nothing to do w/ being afraid of hell or looking forward to heaven. It is all about the here and now baby. I am a better person, a better mom, a better wife, a better daughter, and kinder, more grace-filled human being when I am swimming in the love and grace of my God. Eternity doesn’t play into it anymore for me - I want to be who I am supposed to be, who God calls me to be here, now.

# 30 January 2008 at 2:23 pm

Rick Dancer said:

Sorry Josh. It was John and for some reason I was reading it as another Josh. Old age plays tricks on your eyes.

# 31 January 2008 at 6:34 am

barbara said:

Its the initials I think. Both are J.K. It fouls me up too. Don’t let him give you crap, Rick. He’ll be in his 30’s like us someday.

# 31 January 2008 at 8:11 am

Josh Walchester said:

Because that’s not the deal? Peters call at pentecost was to be saved from their old pattern of living, he showed a way to leave the old mucked up generation and live in a way that worked, based on the spirit of God. I suppose those that ask that question perhaps have not fully understood what we are being saved from. Buddhists spend years trying to destroy their desires because they cause them pain, but God gives us a way to have hungers that will be filled, valuable stuff that doesn’t wear out. Treasures in heaven (which doesn’t necessarily mean post-death treasures by the way as God has seated us in heaven now. (Brainspasm)).
Take a look at Ecclesiastes, and Solomon’s perspective on indulgence too.
Look I only understand a tiny portion of what I am talking about, but if you look at the next verse he answers his own question: If you are free to act then the issue is your nature and your habits. You will always have some nature, and our nature leads to death (naturally!). But Gods trick is to have the immortal way coming from the inside out, not imposed from the outside in. Its like curing a disease rather than living in a bubble.
What do you think?

# 31 January 2008 at 12:34 pm

Rick Dancer said:

Barbara, You’re 30? I could swear you were 25. You can’t tell on here because you talk so youthful and all.
oh….another Josh….Welcome Mr Walchester.

# 31 January 2008 at 4:41 pm

barbara said:

I love you Rick.

Welcome, Josh W.

# 1 February 2008 at 8:52 am

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