Comments on: Saturday in the park http://epinoiacafe.com/2009/03/saturday-in-the-park/ Just another WordPress weblog Fri, 12 Mar 2010 00:46:43 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: Theresa Seeber http://epinoiacafe.com/2009/03/saturday-in-the-park/comment-page-1/#comment-1676 Theresa Seeber Mon, 06 Apr 2009 17:09:43 +0000 http://epinoiacafe.com/?p=482#comment-1676 Recently I met with this same group again and I think maybe my accuser had misspoken. My accuser did the same exact thing I had been accused of all throughout our meeting, which was to offer personal experience in parenting issues related to medical issues and other non-disciplinary, non-hot-button issues. I also noticed that although I arrived feeling disjointed and unaccepted, and leary of trying to connect, when I did step forward I was completely embraced by the young parents/couples in the room. The original criticism had been that I was offering too much, like an overbearing mother-in-law, and that I had created this tension in which people were afraid of even being around me for fear I might start up again. But I experienced nothing of the sort, and ended up really enjoying the relationships there. That is good, because I had told my husband I thought it better perhaps if I stopped going altogether. What a waste that would have been! In defense of my accuser, she is a woman of God and generally gracious, so I imagine her motivations were good and I don't want to bring any criticism of her here. :-) I too love exchanging ideas, and so does the friend who had critiqued me. But this isn't about her. (I am working thru my feelings about this whole mess, as it seems to be a repeat issue in my life - my getting too eager to know people and to be known, to share ideas, to explore the many fascinations and complexities of life with others. I am an A personality with OCD, you can imagine how this might get under some people's skin.) I would absolutely love to get together some time! In the meantime there is always Tokbox, although between family and ministry it may be hard to connect at the same time.... :-) We are in Southern California. Lancaster to be precise. I am loving getting to know you better, and I saw your kind comment at facebook about being known and loved for who I am, and I returned the sentiment to you! Peace! Recently I met with this same group again and I think maybe my accuser had misspoken. My accuser did the same exact thing I had been accused of all throughout our meeting, which was to offer personal experience in parenting issues related to medical issues and other non-disciplinary, non-hot-button issues. I also noticed that although I arrived feeling disjointed and unaccepted, and leary of trying to connect, when I did step forward I was completely embraced by the young parents/couples in the room. The original criticism had been that I was offering too much, like an overbearing mother-in-law, and that I had created this tension in which people were afraid of even being around me for fear I might start up again. But I experienced nothing of the sort, and ended up really enjoying the relationships there. That is good, because I had told my husband I thought it better perhaps if I stopped going altogether. What a waste that would have been! In defense of my accuser, she is a woman of God and generally gracious, so I imagine her motivations were good and I don't want to bring any criticism of her here. :-)

I too love exchanging ideas, and so does the friend who had critiqued me. But this isn't about her. (I am working thru my feelings about this whole mess, as it seems to be a repeat issue in my life - my getting too eager to know people and to be known, to share ideas, to explore the many fascinations and complexities of life with others. I am an A personality with OCD, you can imagine how this might get under some people's skin.)

I would absolutely love to get together some time! In the meantime there is always Tokbox, although between family and ministry it may be hard to connect at the same time…. :-) We are in Southern California. Lancaster to be precise.

I am loving getting to know you better, and I saw your kind comment at facebook about being known and loved for who I am, and I returned the sentiment to you! Peace!

]]> By: AngelaHarms http://epinoiacafe.com/2009/03/saturday-in-the-park/comment-page-1/#comment-1672 AngelaHarms Sat, 04 Apr 2009 01:26:29 +0000 http://epinoiacafe.com/?p=482#comment-1672 "I was getting too involved in the lives of some of the young couples/new parents we both know. In my desire to know and be known, pray together and exchange ideas, I had apparently come on too strong." Sounds like radical love, to me. I'm not a big fan of safety and boundaries. That annoys some folks. I'm curious: do you think it was too strong? Was the couple uncomfortable? (Is uncomfortable always a bad thing?) Do you wish you'd done things differently? What was it like for you to connect with them? I *love* exchanging ideas. I think some people don't like that much, either. :) "I think I suffer from a case of, this is already being done by some, I want something new, something more. I feel like I should just go with the flow and go wherever I see the Holy Spirit moving, but yet I have this need, this drive, to change the world. To break new ground." Oh, this I get! I have had a similar feeling. I don't want to go work in somebody's soup kitchen. I want to shake things up, bring about a radical shift in consciousness, even if only a tiny bit at a time, and even if most of the work is done on my own consciousness. Hence the <a href="http:\/\/radicalloveproject.com" target="_blank">Radical Love Project</a>. It would be so fun to get to talk in person. Maybe at a conference one of these days... Angela "I was getting too involved in the lives of some of the young couples/new parents we both know. In my desire to know and be known, pray together and exchange ideas, I had apparently come on too strong."
Sounds like radical love, to me. I'm not a big fan of safety and boundaries. That annoys some folks.

I'm curious: do you think it was too strong? Was the couple uncomfortable? (Is uncomfortable always a bad thing?) Do you wish you'd done things differently? What was it like for you to connect with them?

I *love* exchanging ideas. I think some people don't like that much, either. :)

"I think I suffer from a case of, this is already being done by some, I want something new, something more. I feel like I should just go with the flow and go wherever I see the Holy Spirit moving, but yet I have this need, this drive, to change the world. To break new ground."

Oh, this I get! I have had a similar feeling. I don't want to go work in somebody's soup kitchen. I want to shake things up, bring about a radical shift in consciousness, even if only a tiny bit at a time, and even if most of the work is done on my own consciousness. Hence the Radical Love Project.

It would be so fun to get to talk in person. Maybe at a conference one of these days…

Angela

]]> By: Theresa Seeber http://epinoiacafe.com/2009/03/saturday-in-the-park/comment-page-1/#comment-1671 Theresa Seeber Fri, 03 Apr 2009 04:22:01 +0000 http://epinoiacafe.com/?p=482#comment-1671 Some of what you guys are saying are ringing true, but not all. I love meeting new people and sharing my life with them, and get really excited when they share theirs with me. As a matter of fact, I was chastised recently (right before I wrote this post) by someone who is doing this ministry because they had noticed I was getting too involved in the lives of some of the young couples/new parents we both know. In my desire to know and be known, pray together and exchange ideas, I had apparently come on too strong. (Who me? Angela perhaps you are getting to know me by now and can see some truth in my friend's accusation.) I have no misgivings about possibly finding out that these needy people are real people with much to offer. I used to hang out in the homeless communities as a teen, and the first memory my husband has of laying eyes on me I had brought my ragamuffin homeless boyfriend to youth group. :-) I think I suffer from a case of, this is already being done by some, I want something new, something more. I feel like I should just go with the flow and go wherever I see the Holy Spirit moving, but yet I have this need, this drive, to change the world. To break new ground. Oh my gosh, I am realizing something as I type! My husband noticed recently that I have a serious gifting in breaking new ground. That is probably it. I want to break new ground, because this ground is already broken and there is so much that is trapped still under hard, packed dirt! Okay, now to temper that, LOL. Thanks guys. I am eager to continue this conversation, here and elsewhere. I admire you both greatly for getting out there and doing the stuff. You yourselves are breaking new ground every time you meet in this park, I think. I want that too. Some of what you guys are saying are ringing true, but not all. I love meeting new people and sharing my life with them, and get really excited when they share theirs with me. As a matter of fact, I was chastised recently (right before I wrote this post) by someone who is doing this ministry because they had noticed I was getting too involved in the lives of some of the young couples/new parents we both know. In my desire to know and be known, pray together and exchange ideas, I had apparently come on too strong. (Who me? Angela perhaps you are getting to know me by now and can see some truth in my friend's accusation.) I have no misgivings about possibly finding out that these needy people are real people with much to offer. I used to hang out in the homeless communities as a teen, and the first memory my husband has of laying eyes on me I had brought my ragamuffin homeless boyfriend to youth group. :-) I think I suffer from a case of, this is already being done by some, I want something new, something more. I feel like I should just go with the flow and go wherever I see the Holy Spirit moving, but yet I have this need, this drive, to change the world. To break new ground. Oh my gosh, I am realizing something as I type! My husband noticed recently that I have a serious gifting in breaking new ground. That is probably it. I want to break new ground, because this ground is already broken and there is so much that is trapped still under hard, packed dirt! Okay, now to temper that, LOL. Thanks guys. I am eager to continue this conversation, here and elsewhere. I admire you both greatly for getting out there and doing the stuff. You yourselves are breaking new ground every time you meet in this park, I think. I want that too.

]]> By: AngelaHarms http://epinoiacafe.com/2009/03/saturday-in-the-park/comment-page-1/#comment-1669 AngelaHarms Mon, 30 Mar 2009 00:28:45 +0000 http://epinoiacafe.com/?p=482#comment-1669 Wow, Theresa! What I'm hearing here is a lot of passion, that you're getting a glimpse of the life that Jesus tells us is possible. Yes? I know that for me, when I get those glimpses, and realize the beautiful things I can choose, it can be electrifying. I am so grateful to God for giving us this ability to create, to change direction in every moment. But then, with that ability comes the difficulty of figuring out what direction to go in, and what direction to turn away from. Because when I chose one thing, there's always something else I'm giving up. When I feel jumbled about what I'm doing, wanting and not-wanting at the same time, I don't usually find answers until I sit down and quiet my mind, breathe, and listen for God's answers. Some folks say that if you have felt a calling and then find yourself not wanting to do the work, you should just push on. For me, though, those feelings of not wanting are usually a clue that I need to do more listening. When I surrender and let God lead, I feel peace and a sense of rightness, even in the face of difficulty. Does that fit with your experience? Wow, Theresa! What I'm hearing here is a lot of passion, that you're getting a glimpse of the life that Jesus tells us is possible. Yes? I know that for me, when I get those glimpses, and realize the beautiful things I can choose, it can be electrifying. I am so grateful to God for giving us this ability to create, to change direction in every moment.

But then, with that ability comes the difficulty of figuring out what direction to go in, and what direction to turn away from. Because when I chose one thing, there's always something else I'm giving up.

When I feel jumbled about what I'm doing, wanting and not-wanting at the same time, I don't usually find answers until I sit down and quiet my mind, breathe, and listen for God's answers.

Some folks say that if you have felt a calling and then find yourself not wanting to do the work, you should just push on. For me, though, those feelings of not wanting are usually a clue that I need to do more listening. When I surrender and let God lead, I feel peace and a sense of rightness, even in the face of difficulty.

Does that fit with your experience?

]]> By: Tracy http://epinoiacafe.com/2009/03/saturday-in-the-park/comment-page-1/#comment-1668 Tracy Sun, 29 Mar 2009 23:16:25 +0000 http://epinoiacafe.com/?p=482#comment-1668 Hi, Theresa, Perhaps your reluctance to go to the park stems from knowing that involving yourself with the people there will be unlike praying for strangers or donating money to programs that make changes in Africa. The changes that I want to open myself up to, in my visits "outside", are changes that come from authentic personal connection. It was not easy for me to start doing this! I was afraid that "these people" would be unpleasant to be around. It turned out that my preconceptions as to what counts as pleasant aren't very important. My fears were ultimately about protecting myself from being affected by learning who these folk are, what their lives are like, what they know as joys and what they bear as sorrows. My guess is that you "can't get into this" because you have similar misgivings, and I'm guessing that as you let Jesus' way guide you into unguarded relationships (a.k.a. love) you'll find that God's work here is not limited to your-helping-the-needy. His love is sent to change you, and me, just as much. Hi, Theresa,

Perhaps your reluctance to go to the park stems from knowing that involving yourself with the people there will be unlike praying for strangers or donating money to programs that make changes in Africa.

The changes that I want to open myself up to, in my visits "outside", are changes that come from authentic personal connection. It was not easy for me to start doing this! I was afraid that "these people" would be unpleasant to be around. It turned out that my preconceptions as to what counts as pleasant aren't very important. My fears were ultimately about protecting myself from being affected by learning who these folk are, what their lives are like, what they know as joys and what they bear as sorrows.

My guess is that you "can't get into this" because you have similar misgivings, and I'm guessing that as you let Jesus' way guide you into unguarded relationships (a.k.a. love) you'll find that God's work here is not limited to your-helping-the-needy. His love is sent to change you, and me, just as much.

]]> By: Theresa Seeber http://epinoiacafe.com/2009/03/saturday-in-the-park/comment-page-1/#comment-1664 Theresa Seeber Sun, 29 Mar 2009 21:49:47 +0000 http://epinoiacafe.com/?p=482#comment-1664 I am so torn. Maybe you can help. For the past year I have been on the most amazing journey. I made friends with Tony Jones and Doug Pagitt who showed me that much of what I had believed about the gospel was only about 10% of the actual gospel. That there was more to salvation than simply an escape route at the end of our days. Granted, my walk with God was already very intimate and mature, but my theology was incomplete in that it did not make room for the Kingdom of God in the form of salvation in the many and varied terms Jesus speaks of it. I just did not realize the immensity of the suffering in this world, and surely did not realize the immense passion Jesus has for bringing deliverance from those situations in the here and now, as well as in the afterlife. So I have been on this path that has led me not only to the Emergent Church movement, but also the Missional movement. Now I have this passion to live as a missionary but in the context of my own community. And I so desire to give it all to God and neighbor, but am struggling in that very thing. I live my life primarily devoted to my immediate family, as I have had small children my entire adult life. (From age 18 to now-32, I have had small children.) I don't really get many breaks from my role as Mommy, and have been reminding my husband a lot lately that I really need some time away every few days, and the weekends are a good time for that. I get overwhelmed if I don't get away. So maybe my reluctance is that opportunity for peace and quiet around here. So my main mission field continues to be my own offspring. But there is a yearning within me to reach out and bring the Kingdom to many! Today I have the opportunity to go to a park setting in which real community is being formed over a meal that Christians show up and provide. It is not your typical food bank situation - it has become a picnic with real community forming. Yet I have this "I don't want to go" attitude. How hypocritical is that from a woman who wants desperately to form a house church in which to worship more organically, and to live in an everywhere-I-go-is-my-mission-field mentality? I LOVE to pray for people who are in any kind of need, especially ground-breaking need. I want to feed the hungry, build wells in Africa, sponsor every unsponsored child in the world, and live a generous orthodoxy that allows all to come to the feet of Jesus. So why don't I want to go to the park? This group is still in need of a few more people, even though it is established already and running smoothly. But I want something more. Why? Is it because I spend almost every waking minute with my four children (even when I blog, they are there) and I don't want to take them to a busy park? I know it is not a fear of connecting. I love people! So why can't I get into this? The man who has started all this is one of the few people in my community who is actually doing the stuff that EC and Missional talk about. I am so inspired by him. He's amazing. So what is the deal? Can you help me? What am I missing here? I almost just e-mailed you, but surely there are others who would benefit from any help you can give me, and surely there are others who can benefit from my sharing. I am so torn. Maybe you can help. For the past year I have been on the most amazing journey. I made friends with Tony Jones and Doug Pagitt who showed me that much of what I had believed about the gospel was only about 10% of the actual gospel. That there was more to salvation than simply an escape route at the end of our days. Granted, my walk with God was already very intimate and mature, but my theology was incomplete in that it did not make room for the Kingdom of God in the form of salvation in the many and varied terms Jesus speaks of it. I just did not realize the immensity of the suffering in this world, and surely did not realize the immense passion Jesus has for bringing deliverance from those situations in the here and now, as well as in the afterlife. So I have been on this path that has led me not only to the Emergent Church movement, but also the Missional movement. Now I have this passion to live as a missionary but in the context of my own community. And I so desire to give it all to God and neighbor, but am struggling in that very thing.
I live my life primarily devoted to my immediate family, as I have had small children my entire adult life. (From age 18 to now-32, I have had small children.) I don't really get many breaks from my role as Mommy, and have been reminding my husband a lot lately that I really need some time away every few days, and the weekends are a good time for that. I get overwhelmed if I don't get away. So maybe my reluctance is that opportunity for peace and quiet around here.
So my main mission field continues to be my own offspring. But there is a yearning within me to reach out and bring the Kingdom to many! Today I have the opportunity to go to a park setting in which real community is being formed over a meal that Christians show up and provide. It is not your typical food bank situation - it has become a picnic with real community forming. Yet I have this "I don't want to go" attitude. How hypocritical is that from a woman who wants desperately to form a house church in which to worship more organically, and to live in an everywhere-I-go-is-my-mission-field mentality? I LOVE to pray for people who are in any kind of need, especially ground-breaking need. I want to feed the hungry, build wells in Africa, sponsor every unsponsored child in the world, and live a generous orthodoxy that allows all to come to the feet of Jesus. So why don't I want to go to the park? This group is still in need of a few more people, even though it is established already and running smoothly. But I want something more. Why? Is it because I spend almost every waking minute with my four children (even when I blog, they are there) and I don't want to take them to a busy park? I know it is not a fear of connecting. I love people! So why can't I get into this? The man who has started all this is one of the few people in my community who is actually doing the stuff that EC and Missional talk about. I am so inspired by him. He's amazing. So what is the deal? Can you help me? What am I missing here?
I almost just e-mailed you, but surely there are others who would benefit from any help you can give me, and surely there are others who can benefit from my sharing.

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